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Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from (Recent Donor)JanessaRavenwood
Review:
Ok, we now have a Word of God clarification on the nature of magic here (in response to Cutiepie's review below) - and magic has been ruled to be both sentient and moral. Author, as I stated previously, you have just *completely* broken not only your story, but the entire BtVS/Angel universe.

If magic is both sentient and moral, how did the last, oh, million years of the BtVS/Angel universe occur? It's a history of *lots* of dark spellcasters casting evil spells - and that could not have happened with Big Sister "magic herself" on the job. As a matter of fact, demons are clearly magical creatures as well, so how did they come to exist at all? A sentient and moral "magic herself" clearly would not allow that to occur. Instead, the BtVS/Angel universe would be a place of candy, unicorns, and rainbows, with no evil magics or magical creatures allowed to exist there. A Slayer would not be needed there, and indeed, could not have been created, as the Slayer's creation was the essence of a dark and powerful demon forced by a spell into a young girl, and a sentient and moral "magic herself" would never have allowed such a demon to exist or such a spell to function. There goes the whole show.

But let's assume that "magic herself" was napping for the last million years or so and missed all of that and focus on recent events. Why exactly was Willow's resurrection spell allowed to work at all? Shouldn't it have just failed, or possibly not just failed but fizzled out with a note dropping in her lap that read: "Hello, Willow. I'm Magic Herself and you've been a bad, bad witch! Not only did I just stop this spell from working, but I just cancelled your ability to use me to for *anything* until I decide to allow it again. Now go to your room and no supper for you. Signed, Magic Herself."

And forget some witch in a small town, what about Wolfram and Hart (and their clients)? They surely get up to much more evil in a single afternoon than some wayward witch who cast a resurrection spell she shouldn't have. Why are *they* still in business? Heck, of all the spellcasters in the world, why is *Cyvus Vail* still running around?! He surely gets up to darker deeds than this every day before breakfast, so what about him?

I repeat, this is no small element of a spell that you have introduced here - it changes *everything*. With this in place, not only could your story not exist, but neither can the entire BtVS/Angel universe, because it contradicts *every* other basic story element of that universe.
Comments from author:
OK - I will pipe up one more time on this subject to clarify... I did not say whether or not magic is sentient or moral. I only said that the spell did leave a way for Willow to get back her magic and repeated the line from the spell. Be careful not to jump ahead here. While I am glad to cause such strong reactions through my writing, and I encourage guessing and conversation, let's try to take this story as it comes. Hopefully, things will become more clear in the next few of scenes.

I realize that my method of writing in short scenes does leave time for thought for readers, but you have to keep in mind that this is all happening in a matter of hours, of minutes, for the characters. They all just found out some very big stuff and are dealing with it in different ways. And nobody is perfect either - not Tara, not Willow, not anybody.
Review By [(Recent Donor)JanessaRavenwood] • Date [8 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from Misty
Review:
Poor Tara.... Thank you for another great chapter x
Comments from author:
Thank you for reading and reviewing!
Review By [Misty] • Date [7 Mar 14] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from JasonBarnett
Review:
Maybe Tara did what she did out of love, but her magic has worked just as well without the basis, like when she made them blind to demons. And anyway how exactly does being forgiven by magic work? Magic was never angry at Willow before

And despite what people say I never thought that Willow was trying to control Tara with her spells, she was simply trying to take back a stupid thing she said.

Tara's actions in this fic amount to this to me: "My way is the right way to do magic and you'll do it my way or you won't do it."

Willow's actions in canon amount to this to me: "Stop telling me how to live my life Tara."
Review By [JasonBarnett] • Date [7 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from RevDorothyL
Review:
Poor, brave Tara!
Review By [RevDorothyL] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from (Recent Donor)JanessaRavenwood
Review:
Indeed, if magic has both sentience and morality, then how exactly did the canon events of the show ever come to exist in-universe? Many of the Scooby’s efforts wouldn't be necessary at all. No demons or magicians could use magic for evil, as magic "herself" wouldn't let them. The Mayor could never have ascended, and there goes Season 3, for starters. Amy's mother could never have worked the mischief she did. The list goes on and on. Why, with “Big Sister” magic herself on the job, all magic will be lily white and pure forever – and they all lived Happily Ever After.

Either:

A) Tara’s language when casting the spell was a bit flowery, and when she said “magic herself,” she was actually referencing her personal, religious beliefs about the morality and ethics of magic, which she is forcing on Willow at spell-point; essentially a “kinder, gentler” method of converting the heathens by fire and sword.

Or

B) Magic really is able to judge and act on the morality of individual spellcasters, in which case the entire BtVS universe was just retconned completely out of existence.
Review By [(Recent Donor)JanessaRavenwood] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from JasonBarnett
Review:
Cutiepie- I'm not the author but it seems to me that you're right, if Tara is right. But if Willow is right and magic is just a tool whatever words you want to use could probably do it. I don't recall any spells on the show ever just fizzling out because the requirements for the spell weren't there.

If magic has a sentience to judge that sort of thing, why would it wait until someone else asked for Willow to be punished? Why wouldn't magic do that itself?

And I believe Tara had no right to ask for Willow to be punished there
Review By [JasonBarnett] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from Cutiepie
Review:
There has been so much "discussion" about how Tara essentially attacked Willow and it was so inexcusable and so forth that I had to go back and re-read the actual binding. Correct me if I'm wrong here, dear Author, but it seems to me that for this spell to work, the essence of magic that Tara was calling upon to perform the binding had to be in agreement about Tara's accusations (implying that magic has a sentience of its own). So, while it might appear that Tara was placing herself as "judge, jury and executioner", she was in fact more in line with a prosecuting attorney bringing the case before the actual Judge (Magic's essence).

While it must feel like a horrid attack to Willow, unlike the "rape" scenario that was put forth, this ritual required LOVE to work, not necessarily just power. It utilized Tara's love for Willow, her love for her mother and for the rest of humanity in general. If Tara didn't actually have that love, the binding wouldn't have worked.

Also important is that the binding wasn't dependent on what Tara thinks/feels but upon the judgment of "Magic herself". If "Magic" judged that Willow's soul was clean, Willow's intentions were pure, and that Willow was forgiven for her actions, there would have been NO BINDING of Willow's powers. Therefore, obviously at least one of those requirements was not fulfilled. Willow tries to rationalize to herself that she didn't do anything wrong, but since the binding DID work with the restrictions included, there was some wrongdoing on her part that she needs to "repent" for.

I think it would be interesting to know what the results of the same binding being placed on Tara would be/would have been. Would she be judged guilty or innocent?
Comments from author:
I am trying not to take part too much in the conversation for spoiler's sake, but I am so loving the back and forth.

I did want to pipe up here and say that the spell is designed to give Willow back her her magic when her soul is clean, her intentions are true, and magic herself forgives her. She can get it back by meeting these criteria. And Tara did fuel It with love, whether she was right or wrong to do this, she had the best of intentions.

I love your last question though - Would the same spell have effected Tara?

Thanks again to everyone for reading and reviewing!
Review By [Cutiepie] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from JasonBarnett
Review:
MagnusXXN- you recall wrong about who was at fault for the last two seasons of the comic

burmafrdnow- it is Tara's morality because it's Tara's morality that caused her to act. For example, her chant mentions gods and goddesses they serve. I would say that since Willow views her magic as simply a tool, she does not consider herself a servant of any gods or goddesses. And considering magic herself did not punish Willow until Tara asked it to, I would have to put it on Tara not the magic
Review By [JasonBarnett] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from MagnusXXN
Review:
....It's awful how believable it is that Willow could do that to Tara. She's one of the 'good guys' again on the comics, if I remember correctly. Her past misdeeds swept under the rug in favor of giving Xander crap for not believing enough in Buffy, despite the fact that if I recall correctly the last two comic seasons problems have more or less been Buffy & Willow's faults.

At any rate, Hank is curious. Not a fan of his, but he is trying at least. Harmony was always amusing.


): )
Review By [MagnusXXN] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from burmafrdnow
Review:
jasonbarnett-did you bother to listen to Tara's chant? Obviously not since you are claiming this is Tara's morality. Unless Tara is

MAGIC HERSELF

get a clue before you post next time
Review By [burmafrdnow] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from JasonBarnett
Review:
yes, Tara does need to call for help. But "warn them"? THis shows Tara's mindset is as warped as Willow's. You bound her Tara. You made her helpless. You're the only member of the Scoobies that Willow can hurt physically and frankly if you'd been prepared and Willow hadn't been in the throes of basically a panic attack you could probably beat her up. How many times when your father hit your mother had your mother actually attacked him first? Because that's what you did.

To BalanceofGrey- you cannot punish a crime before it as done. And there is nothing in canon that says Tara's death had anything to do with Buffy coming back. There's has never been a situation in the Buffyverse were you can decisively prove any sort of karmic backlash. For example, you could say that because the gypsies cursed an innocent soul onto a vampire they were virtually wiped out. But nothing of the sort happened to anyone when Willow used the soul curse

And Tara has not "temporarily" bound Willow's powers. She has bound them until Willow's morality essentially lines up with her own. So Willow must submit to another person's POV, something Willow's memory spells never actually forced on Tara, or remain bound and helpless. I don't find that forgivable. That's borderline brainwashing, with Tara in this case planning for Willow to thank her in the end for what's she done.

I do hope Xander doesn't automatically side with one or the other because abuse should not sit well with him, but he also shouldn't like Tara just forcing her will on Willow. And I can also see Anya having some distaste for Tara's POV on magic(she did turn her husband into a troll and suffer no consequences for it, except eternal life and the ability to do more of that type of stuff), if not necessarily on her actions.

Also hope Willow doesn't jump into anything with D'Hoffryn
Review By [JasonBarnett] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Fingers and Toes" from (Recent Donor)JanessaRavenwood
Review:
Harmony's still hilarious. And I still have no sympathy *at all* for Tara here. Her impulsive fit of anger will, in the end, have achieved *worse* than nothing. Willow will bargain with D'Hoffryn for her powers back, and be converted to the dark side in the process. They lose a Scooby more useful and important than Tara and gain an enemy at the same time. What, in the end, did Tara achieve? Getting beat the hell up in exchange for binding Willow's powers for, what, an hour? Brilliant cost/benefit analysis there, Tara - good job. She *pretends* to be a wise, experienced, well-trained witch, but she's just demonstrated that she's just as much of a "rank amateur" as she accuses Willow of being.
Review By [(Recent Donor)JanessaRavenwood] • Date [6 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Damaged" from Senko
Review:
Just wanted to point out Burmafrdnow willow was entirely self taught I'm personally nit happy with the way this story is going but this really more along the lines of a combat medic teaching themselves to save lives then having someone come along and do something to stop them helping (in their view).
Review By [Senko] • Date [2 Mar 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Damaged" from BalanceofGrey
Review:
Great Chapter! While Tara did act quickly and out of anger, I don't think people are fully taking the realities of the situation into. You can't really view this as you would a legal case, because apparently the nearest thing to a Witches court/council in the Buffy-verse is the Devon Coven...in England. it would be different story if this were a Charmed-crossover, but it isn't. Giles has fucked off to England, leaving a group of 20-year-olds with severe PTSD to flounder without guidance. Tara temporarily bound Willow's power until such time that she realized her mistakes and bad judgments and sought to atone for them, at which point the binding would unlock her powers. We already know to a certain extent, as semi-omniscient observers, that Willow was contemplating magically raping Tara with the memory spell, and up until the fight Willow was pretty much acting in character (in accordance with canon). By this point Willow was powerful enough that no one else in their sphere, save Giles, Anya or Rack, would have even been able to intervene. You can't really view a magical crime through the same lens as you would a mundane one. What would regular authorities be able to do to Willow, even if Sunnydale PD weren't completely incompetent and apathetic. As far as Tara knew, she reasonably assumed that she was the only one in a position to prevent Willow from making more grave errors in judgment and hurting herself and others.

As to the sacrifice of the deer, I don't think it was the killing of the deer itself that concerned Tara, so much as the reason that it was killed. There's nothing wrong with hunting for food, but we're talking about killing something with the express purpose of using it's life to exchange for and take the place of another. Just the facts that Willow never thought to checked to see where Buffy was (assuming that she was in a Hell dimension, when such an even would mean that there would be no body to bury, as it too would be in said Hell dimension) and the thought the a fawn would be an equal exchange
for the life of a twice dead Champion of Light, showed a singular lack of fore-thought, depth of knowledge (a life-for-a-life means equal or greater value, not lesser), or even a modicum of consideration for the other participants of the ritual. Because remember, Willow didn't tell the others about the sacrifice until after the ritual had been done. But the magic would have still considered them connected to it since they participated.
In canon, since Willow didn't provide an adequate sacrifice for the ritual, the magic decided to go for the next best thing to balance the scales, Tara. It couldn't take Willow for whatever reason, so it went for the life that she valued more than any other, excepting Buffy.
Given all of this, Tara was the only one in a position to keep Willow from doing something stupid with her magic, but she paid a heavy price for that decision. And just because she made her decision in a moment that she felt anger doesn't necessarily mean that she made the wrong decision.
Review By [BalanceofGrey] • Date [2 Mar 14] • Rating [8 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Damaged" from JasonBarnett
Review:
this chapter doesn't do much for me. Someone leaving Tara just laying there after being knocked unconscious is totally wrong, and Willow's talking would be much better as an internal dialogue
Review By [JasonBarnett] • Date [28 Feb 14] • Not Rated
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