Large PrintHandheldAudioRating
using
 paypal
Twisting The Hellmouth Crossing Over Awards - Results
Rules for Challenges

Vengeance For The Fallen

StoryReviewsStatisticsRelated StoriesTracking
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from (Current Donor)BaronScrewtape
Review:
Well then, by that logic, Eric should have executed Willow, Giles, Xander, Faith, Every girl that had survived Sunnydale, and then he should have executed himself for being the worst monster of them all.

I mean, it was such a terrible thing they did. Preventing the destruction of the world.
People (like some of the reviewers below) will often go on about Buffy's arrogance. This is hilarious. Buffy was the most humble, forgiving member of the original Scoobies. They repeatedly did horrible things to her. They tried to run her life. And yet, she is the arrogant one. She is the one upon whom all the blame is laid.

Honestly, she should have dumped the lot of them after they tore her from Heaven. Hell, I never understand why she still called them friends in season 8 after they threw her out of her own home. The fact that she always stuck with them. Was willing to go the distance, like sending the man she loved to hell to save the world, like dieing for her sister (who exiled her), and trying to protect their precious consciences from the guilt of bringing her back from Heaven (like they felt more than a brief moment of guilt) makes me think, honestly, she was being far too humble in saying she was better than them.

Jeez I am starting to wish they would put up "OOC Hatefic" warnings on these things.
Comments from author:
Vengeance is not justice. Buffy was a hero, not a bad person. Sometimes, vengeance is not rational or deserved yet people feel the need anyway. This was just an experiment in that perspective. Besides, Buff wouldn't have been the only one. I could have used any other person in the group, I just chose her since the show was named after her.
Review By [(Current Donor)BaronScrewtape] • Date [21 Aug 12] • Rating [1 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from (Current Donor)DeepBlueJoy
Review:
I like your writing, but I really don't see how you got there from canon. It doesn't work unless you *ignore* canon completely.

Yes, I get how others could hate her, but the nature of Buffy herself, it doesn't fit... I often haven't liked her either, but NOTHING in the series justifies the person she's made out to actually be in this story. It might have worked if those who were angry had felt those things about her, but for this to be her revealed true nature? No, it doesn't work at all, sorry.

Peace

Blue
Comments from author:
I kinda of fucked this one up. I tried to show that it wasn't justice, that she was a decent person who just messed up and the victims didn't understand that. I also tried to make it so that Erik loved her and hated to hurt her, but he was forced to by the rage of the victims and the nature of being an agent of vengeance, a Crow. I guess I messed that up big time. Well, you can't get them all right and that was one of my first pieces of writing. I like to think that I've improved.
Review By [(Current Donor)DeepBlueJoy] • Date [18 Nov 09] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from Serenity
Review:
While i understand that Buffy's death was revenge on behalf of the potentials, and in that sense it was "right", I disagree that buffy never learned from her mistakes. While it may seem that way, the others always seemed to demand strength from her, her front kept them safe-like in season seven when buffy reminds them that they asked for a general and then decided she was acting alone. Buffy does learn lessons-and the apparent supremacy she, in your eyes, has, this is rather growing frustration and exhaustion of the fight because it seems she will never be able to rest. Not only that, she has been alienated by the others, if she did believe herself so supreme, she would not have given the potentials the power, she would have abandoned her friends and fought the first herself. While your story has some large flaws, i again understand the idea behind it. Perhaps if you had not mentioned the bit about Buffy's flaws as if it were fact, and rather write it completely from the girls views-and perhaps eric could recognize in the end that the situation was not black and white. I would think that Eric would relate with buffy seeing as how they both have been stolen from peace.

Anyway, sorry if you take offense, it was really well written technically.
Comments from author:
Thanks. Your probably right. But remember that Eric was compelled by vengeance to kill her and he tried doing it as painlessly as possible. Thsnk you for your opinion, I love constructive criticism. It helps me write better.
Review By [Serenity] • Date [7 Dec 08] • Rating [3 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from TweedWizz
Review:
Wonderful. Buffy's rampant arrogance, selfishness, inability to learn, and favourtism of vampires over those she was supposed to protect led her directly to this point.

Willow, Faith, and other characters learnt from their mistakes, to regret them, Buffy never improved, never regretted her arrogance.
Comments from author:
Very true. In all the seasons I have yet to see her improve.
Review By [TweedWizz] • Date [3 Nov 08] • Rating [8 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from espinosaca
Review:
Good fic. I hope you make a fully fledged Crow crossover fic, possibly with Xander as the Crow. While Buffy may not have been responsible for being ressurected she does hold responsibility for what happened to the Potentials once they reached Sunnydale and I can see how they could blame her for their deaths. I can also understand the reasoning of sacrificing Buffy to force the First back, since the First is an intangible enemy it would require magic or some such thing to stop it not brute force.
Comments from author:
THANK YOU! Finally someone understands.
Review By [espinosaca] • Date [2 Nov 08] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from dazz
Review:
nope didn't like it, as the other reviewers said, bringing Buffy back was the fault of the others not hers, and because she was brought back allowed the First to attempt to destroy the slayer line and release hell on earth etc, but killing Buffy will not stop the First, your argument is wrong.

and since the slayer line runs through Faith not Buffy, killing Buffy will not do anything, the only reason the First wants to kill Buffy last is to make her suffer.
Comments from author:
It's not about right or wrong. The dead girls blame Buffy and want vengeance, thats where Eric comes in.
Review By [dazz] • Date [22 Oct 08] • Rating [1 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from clarityfades
Review:
Buffy bashing for the sake of Buffy bashing...especially since the blame for the First's manifestation can be placed solely on the shoulders of the Scoobies who raised her from the dead.
Comments from author:
Maybe, but dead girls don't see it that way. That's what Eric is acting on.
Review By [clarityfades] • Date [22 Oct 08] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from (Moderator)Ava
Review:
This was interesting and good up until this moment, "Worst yet, he saw Buffy realize that the greatest evil she had ever faced, The First, was only allowed to do the things it did because of Buffy, because she tipped the balance allowing The First to gain a foothold, and knowing that if she died then it would lose it's powers."

How did Buffy tip the balance when it was Willow, Xander, Tara and Anya that brought her back and when in the series did they say or even imply that Buffy's death would stop the First's plan? Because Caleb was pretty hell-bent on killing Buffy in the temple and if her death would stop the First then why did it send its 'right hand' to kill her? As I said everything else about this was an interesting take, even if it's not mine, on Buffy's actions and motivations but that sentence actually ruined it for me.


**Edit**
Transcript from the episode you are refering to:
24 INT. BELJOXA'S EYE DIMENSION - DAY
Beljoxa's Eye is addressing Giles and Anya.
BELJOXA'S EYE
It cannot be fought, it cannot be killed. The First Evil has been and always will be. Since before the universe was born, long after there is nothing else, it will go on.
GILES
I refuse to believe that. There must be some way to destroy it.
BELJOXA'S EYE
What, am I talking to myself here? There's no way.
ANYA
OK, we tried. Let's go, Giles. (starts to walk away)
GILES
Are you saying that The First will succeed in—in wiping out the line of slayers?
BELJOXA'S EYE
The eye sees not the future, only the truth of the now and before.
ANYA
Yes, we've all got that—it's called memory. Can you help us out with something a little bit more demony?
GILES
If The First has been around for all time, then why hasn't it attempted something like this before? Why now?
BELJOXA'S EYE
The opportunity has only recently presented itself.
GILES
Opportunity?
BELJOXA'S EYE
The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line have become irrevocably altered, become unstable, vulnerable.
ANYA
Something The First did?
BELJOXA'S EYE
The First Evil did not cause the disruption, only seized upon it to extinguish the lives of the chosen forever.
GILES
Then what has caused the disruption? What—what is responsible for letting this happen?
BELJOXA'S EYE
The slayer.

33 EXT. ALLEY BEHIND A STRIP MALL - NIGHT
Anya and Giles step back through the portal they created earlier and back into the alley where they opened it. Both are windblown.
GILES
Are you all right?
ANYA
(limping) Yeah, I just—I don't understand how Buffy's death mucked up the whole slayer mojo. You know, it's not like she hasn't died before.
GILES
It's not because she died. The Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.
ANYA
Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're—we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The would would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead. (walks off)

Also when the Bringer is questioned in regards to the First's plans it states they are:
(Taken from Touched transcript)
ANDREW
(speaking for the Bringer) We attend to the needs of the infinite evil. We exterminate girls and destroy the legacy of the slayer. We build an arsenal beneath the dirt. We obey the commands of our teacher Caleb.

Essentially:
First kill all the potentials and watchers.
Then kill Faith.
Then kill Buffy to kill the line completely.

It never mentions that killing Buffy would stop the First and it certainly wouldn't save the Slayer-line because it'd already been exposed. So if you want to make a point then please reference the dialogue you are referring to and I will gladly change my opinion. Until then you're simply bending canon to suit your fic... I'm not even going to address the fact that you've completely ignored 'The Crow' canon to write this.
Comments from author:
They mention it season seven in the episode where Giles explains his findings on the First, if you don't believe it then watch season seven again.
Review By [(Moderator)Ava] • Date [21 Oct 08] • Rating [3 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from JustJesting
Review:
Uh-huh. Illogical.

Tell me: if her LIVING is the reason the First can creep in reality and she knows that - what do you suggest as a counter action? Laying down to die with unleashed Turok-Han and Bringers about? It's not as if those servants of the First would simply vanish if the First loses its powers, as those creatures are quite real. And without someone to defend the girls, they would be dead quite fast.

I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong that by the point they find out about Buffy tipping the Balance, Pandora's box is already opened and there is no way to drive the genie back in the bottle (w00t: 2 fitting analogies!) by Buffy suiciding.

Important as you snubbed a reviewer earlier because of this: wasn't her COMING back (and whose fault was that again?) the event that gave the First its chance/an opening to act (if I remember the wording in S7 correctly)? Her actually BEING back is not the issue as far as the First's plans are concerned. Otherwise it would simply capture her (and yes, seeing Buffy struggle against the first Turok-Han and Caleb and being defeated sometimes, it would be possible) and keep her safe and restrained so she couldn't disturb its plans by unfortunately dying in a fight. Or did the Turok-Han and Caleb pull their blows in the fights?

In answer to one of the earlier reviews you wrote that Eric only sees what the dead potentials perceived. In your STORY however you say he saw (directly) through Buffy's eyes, her beginning to love her own power - tell me, if that is so, why did she decline the Shadowmen's offer to boost her up (well, other than the fear of outside control)? The whole story of BtVS always revolved about Buffy trying to have a normal life despite fighting monsters. She actually stated a few times that she'd rather not be the slayer. And Season Seven wasn't all that different. The power you claim he felt her loving - Giles told her to be a general and obeying him as usual, she tried to be. Hell, she failed, but it doesn't mean she liked being that kind of leader. Otherwise she simply would have had her way by force when the potentials threw her out of her house. Instead, she went and did it [the vineyard] alone.

[Concerning the general and military thing and possibly wrong in this context: A leader can be expected to stop all harm, a general has his troops and loses some. A leader is empathic, a general pragmatic. No, I don't remember if this is cited correctly (possibly not seeing the horrible rhymes), but another author once used similar principles as justification for Buffy's actions in S7 - at least partly correct in my eyes]

As for Buffy "loving herself" - oh, that's a good one. Season six is still there in your unique view of the Buffyverse, isn't it? Watch it as a reminder to see Buffy "loving" herself. Beginning to love herself in S7 would be good as in if she hated herself a bit more than in S6, she'd slit her wrists on a daily basis.

That's my point of view as far as I'm concerned - your fic doesn't feel right. Too bashing and illogical. However, seeing as this has given me the possibility to rant,
Thanks for writing,
Just in Jest

PS: In one of your answers, the one with the training accident and the execution (disturbing perspective, btw): IF you argument with military code: Buffy could be tried (at best) under clauses 99, 104, 110 (though not 118); the potentials however would fall under clauses 90, 94, 99, 104, 113 and possibly 100 (source wikipedia, article: List of individuals executed by the United States military>Punishable crimes) - at least in the number of misconducts they have Buffy beaten. (side note: I wonder if Kennedy was already 18 at this point - Willow with clause 120?)

PPS: If my information is not correct (it has been a while, I admit), please point out the exact episode and/or source material to contradict me in terms of fact/wording. I'd rather not watch the whole S7 again to find one teeny fact.
Comments from author:
Well, I can't remebr the exact episode but it was right after Giles returned to England and before that one girl prophecised her own death. When has Buffy ever been logical? This is the potential's belief, They were good people and they died in a way that caused them to blame Buffy. Vengeance is not justice. And tell me Buffy was ot self absorbed and in love with her own power to some extent. This is just a story man, relax, take a hit and enjoy the show. That's my advice.
Review By [JustJesting] • Date [21 Oct 08] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from Fyrloche
Review:
You have a thing for 'The Crow' don't you? Not that I blame you. It was a damn good movie. At least, the first one was. Good story. Buffy just can't catch a break, can she? (Except for the neck, that is. *snorts*) Later.
Comments from author:
Thanks, I am a huge fan of the Crow. The first movie and the comic but not the rest. The series was a disaster of epic proportions.
Review By [Fyrloche] • Date [21 Oct 08] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from theunixer
Review:
Bad show. You got it completely wrong.

Buffy cared about others. With those who were weak, she tried to get them out of danger, hence Xander's frustration at her trying to keep him out of the Slaying in earlier years).

As for power, yes, she had it, but it was given to her, not craved by her. She observed that others wanted it. That was their motivation, hence the Watcher's Council's actions over the millenia of controlling the Slayer.
Comments from author:
I never said that Buffy was evil, just that the girls believed that and thus Eric too, but to each their own.
Review By [theunixer] • Date [20 Oct 08] • Rating [1 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from RightSidex
Review:
you and me need to team up. you write the fiction, i do the art. lol. i love it. your description of eric is great, and your characterization of buffy is very creative. no one ever has her as the bad guy. it was funny, when i was doing the fanart of the crow and btvs, i kept trying to fit the two together as a couple and it never worked out. i think it might be because i just like eric more than her... but anyway, i like it a lot and i'll try to post some art on a story of your soon!
Comments from author:
Thanks and I'm glad you enjoyed it. I look forward to seing some more of your art.
Review By [RightSidex] • Date [20 Oct 08] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from Revello
Review:
Beautifully written, even if it wasn't my cup of tea.

Personally I think Buffy is getting a bad rap for S7. She didn't bring herself back from the dead and her injuries after the initial fight with the Uber-Vamp weren't exactly a paper-cut. Which to my mind, only proves that she wasn't asking more from the others than she was willing to give herself. Arrogance would have been her saying, 'You all go back to the vineyard and I'll stay here because I'm to important to lose.'

Also, was she wrong in calling the girls weak?

By hanging herself, all she did was end her life. If she'd gathered her nerve and fought, she might have still died but then she would have died in order to give the other Potentials a chance to make it through the battle. Isn't that what it means to be a Slayer? It's not about them, their wants or desires, it's about their pains and sacrifices being for the greater good.

In relation to this fic though, I can't help but wonder if the acts of one, in this case Buffy, aren't skewed by the perception of the wronged. Unaware of the sheer scope of the battle they found themselves in, did they truly believe that just because she was a Slayer she could or even should save them all? Having powers is great, yet it doesn't account for much when you are facing off against things with powers equal or in the case of Caleb, greater than your own. So it seems to me, that in this case, the girls fear and lack of understanding about what it means to be a Slayer could lead them to believe that Buffy and Buffy alone was a cold, arrogant leader that thought of nothing save for herself.
Comments from author:
Exactly! Vengeance is not always justice. That's what I'm trying to point out. Eric is acting on people who were good and were crying out for vengeance. This doesn't mean that Buffy is evil, just what the dead girls believed. And some of Buffy's less than good moments were all that Eric saw.
Review By [Revello] • Date [20 Oct 08] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from Mcspender
Review:
Nice fic dude.
To Draven's pow, all the new slayers that died without knowing why they suddenly became a supernatural magnet, they are claiming for revenge.

See ya!!
Comments from author:
Thanks.
Review By [Mcspender] • Date [20 Oct 08] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Vengeance Comes On Swift Wings" from Itarille
Review:
I was somewhat interested in seeing the take on Buffy when I clicked the link, but I have to say I was let down by what seems to me to be pure biased bashing than anything else. Blaming Buffy for the First when it was Willow, Xander, and Dawn's faults for bringing her back was probably the biggest red flag. Some people may have hated the Potential Activation, but it was the only way they could possibly man up against the Turok Han and the First...a few girls getting powers versus the whole world dying?

To me, Buffy is the ultimate tragic hero. She was forced into her heroism and she does everything she can with what she has. Is it always right or is she always perfect? Hell no, but she tries and she tries to help people despite the fact that her future is probably nonexistent.

One of the definitions of hero is "a person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life." Whether people like her or not, she has always done what she can for the Good and she risked AND sacrificed her life multiple times, even when she knew she would die. The road to hell is also paved with good intentions, but in this case...saving the world was a bit higher on the task list than avoiding the activation of potentials.

I guess I was hoping more for a melancholy, tragic look at all the people she hasn't saved rather than a basher highlighting her as the ultimate evil...because of all the things that were not in her control.
Comments from author:
This is based on the feelings of potentials who died. Vengeance is not always justice..remember that.
Review By [Itarille] • Date [20 Oct 08] • Rating [2 out of 10]
Page: 1 of 2 next end
StoryReviewsStatisticsRelated StoriesTracking