Large PrintHandheldAudioRating
using
 paypal
Twisting The Hellmouth Crossing Over Awards - Results
Rules for Challenges

The Price of Secrets

StoryReviewsStatisticsRelated StoriesTracking
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from fanreaderonetwo
Review:
"I was obscure or wrong when I used the term "has to have someone's chain yanked _hard_". I didn't mean it as in 'give someone a hard time' to tease or annoy them, but as in calling someone's boss's boss (or higher) to have them ordered to back down.
Think of an over-aggressive dog wearing a choke-chain collar who's owner yanks on his leash _hard_.
For example when Gibbs gets a call directly from the SecNav (or the President) telling him to back off, or Gibbs' boss gets a call ordering him/her to stop Gibbs.....

So imagine Maggie Walsh (who works for the NID) starts snooping around Xander, and the President calls the head of the NID who reassigns Maggie to Antarctica for a year or two to 'cool her off'..... Maybe there is an over aggressive reporter who is put on the same plane 'south' as Maggie by his boss after a run in with Xander.

Comments from author:

Ah the joys of the English language with all it's dozens of ways to interpret a single phrase. :-) I'll bet they don't call up the ladder too much because they'd probably have to go quite high to get someone in the know and they don't necessarily want an overly aggressive questioner to know they have the kind of political pull that can get the President or the Sec Nav on the phone. Also, I can't imagine the Sec Nav or President are at all happy with having to deal with it. ("I trust you to stop apocalypses but you can't stop one nosey agent?")"

*****

Think about stopping someone like canon Maggie Walsh after she got a sniff of something that looked like an _intriguing_ possible source of great power and possibly great wealth......
And would _you_ want Maggie messing around with magic and the supernatural?

Yes we can stop them. But in extreme cases like this, with smart, aggressive and ruthless individuals, the means we have to use might leave them of little further use to _you_ or themselves due to PTSD, constant severe nightmares and occasionally brain damage.
Comments from author:
I think the Scoobies would keep a watch on things (and Giles would give them all grief about finally understanding the importance of being "Watchers"), but wouldn't want to step in unless it was necessary and would actually be more forgiving of horrible ideas than the government (consider what some of the Scoobies themselves have done after all). They do still want to develop allies, after all, and there's not much point in having an ally if they're not at least somewhat smart, aggressive, and ruthless. It was only once it became clear that Walsh had not only crossed a line but refused to stop that the Scoobies stopped treating her like a potential ally and even then they weren't the ones to kill her. And they did help as many of Initiative soldiers as they could.
Review By [fanreaderonetwo] • Date [18 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from fanreaderonetwo
Review:
"Wondering how often Xander's crew has to have someone's chain yanked _hard_ because they start sniffing around (due to pure curiosity, outrage about vigilantes having such authority, smelling a potential source of wealth or power, etc) and Xander thinks that they are not someone he considers useful, safe or desirable to deal with.

Image of someone (Maggie Walsh comes to mind) who hears about Xander's crew and wants a piece of the secret. Or else its a newsy or blogger type who smells a great story and wants to tell the world about it.

Comments from author:

Thanks!


And I think Xander does it on purpose: he's agreed to not confront federal agents with proof of the supernatural, but he can still confront them with the fact that he's working with such a different rule book that no one will know what arguments to make."

*****

I was obscure or wrong when I used the term "has to have someone's chain yanked _hard_". I didn't mean it as in 'give someone a hard time' to tease or annoy them, but as in calling someone's boss's boss (or higher) to have them ordered to back down.
Think of an over-aggressive dog wearing a choke-chain collar who's owner yanks on his leash _hard_.
For example when Gibbs gets a call directly from the SecNav (or the President) telling him to back off, or Gibbs' boss gets a call ordering him/her to stop Gibbs.....

So imagine Maggie Walsh (who works for the NID) starts snooping around Xander, and the President calls the head of the NID who reassigns Maggie to Antarctica for a year or two to 'cool her off'..... Maybe there is an over aggressive reporter who is put on the same plane 'south' as Maggie by his boss after a run in with Xander.
Comments from author:
Ah the joys of the English language with all it's dozens of ways to interpret a single phrase. :-) I'll bet they don't call up the ladder too much because they'd probably have to go quite high to get someone in the know and they don't necessarily want an overly aggressive questioner to know they have the kind of political pull that can get the President or the Sec Nav on the phone. Also, I can't imagine the Sec Nav or President are at all happy with having to deal with it. ("I trust you to stop apocalypses but you can't stop one nosey agent?")

I imagine they mostly stonewall or give directions to someone else who will stonewall. Or possibly go to the local police with accusations of stalking. Also, for that matter, they're not actually trying to hide the supernatural from anyone. I imagine there are plenty of federal employees who are aware of it from sources outside any sort of official briefing. If a Maggie-Walsh-wannabe creates another Adam, then the Scoobies will deal with both it and her, but until then, she can do all the investigating she wants as long as she doesn't harass them.
Review By [fanreaderonetwo] • Date [16 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "part 2" from Lictre
Review:
Oddly enough, based on the 'canon' of BTVS, there seems to be very pragmatic reasons for governmental agencies to be kept ignorant of those things that go bump in the night, and to tolerate a non-governmental organization (NGO) that will do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo, to the point of legal immunity from the consequences of their activities related to human survival as a species.

The DRI is probably a cautionary horror story at the top levels of the alphabet-soup agencies, including the Joint Chiefs of Staff, (JCS). Who knows what other governmental disasters happened that the Scoobs never heard about, that forms a body of institutional wisdom to keep governmental and military types out of contact with the supernatural.

The implicit compromise between the guiding body of the Slayers (by whatever name), other demon-hunting groups, and government agencies, is like ALL compromises. Neither is truly happy with the end result, but it's something that both can live with.

The government would love to have magic-users able to help with the mundane, but then they might not be able to help contain some supernatural threat. They have to prioritize the survival of the human species as not being slaves or food to some threat over the potential benefit of an FBI mage. They essentially cede the supernatural world to its own enforcers, who have to play at the murderous difficulties, but they included the provision that the supernatural enforcers not deal with purely human conflict.

The interesting question is the edges of that boundary, when some mundane criminal, for purely human motives, does something against the supernatural enforcers. Are the enforcers empowered to deal with those purely human criminals, or do the enforcers have to hand them over to regular law enforcement? Arguments can be made in either direction. For example that the enforcers have carte blanche in issues of self-defense, thus the mundane criminal is likely to be screwed, or that as a purely human act, the enforcer has to hand the crook (if caught) over to the cops, and allow collection of evidence as normal, which could lead to the investigators learning about the supernatural.

Has a new classification of legal immunity been created, similar to diplomatic immunity, for the supernatural defenders? Is it international? How is that treated by hostile or ineffective governments? If some of the defenders are seized by a hostile power, would they be prioritized for retrieval by military force, or would that constitute governmental backup, and thus be banned by the agreement?

The logical questions become interesting when you explore the borders of this sort of situation.

[In response to author's answer]

I think, instead, that the line should be drawn at the point of inclusion of the supernatural, regardless of the species of the criminal. A warlock casting a mind-control spell could quite reasonably expect supernatural enforcement of some form to come down on him. The problem is that the supernatural's definitely more of a frontier situation where enforcement is concerned, so only the most dangerous (world-ending, or species-threatening) crimes and criminals draw immediate attention. In the absence of more enforcers, or more professional enforcers, the lesser crimes slip through the cracks. Like Xander said, his group doesn't do trials and sentencing, simply because their priority HAS to be planetary and human survival, and they can't spare time for 'lesser' cases. They might point others at the lesser criminals, but until they're 'slay-worthy', they can't afford the time.
Comments from author:
*grin* Yeah, once you start trying to figure out exactly how this works in practice, it's like falling down a rabbit hole. In general, it's a good idea to keep the mundane and the supernatural policing separate, but there are all sorts of specific circumstances that need to be addressed.

In my head canon, the line is drawn at who the perpetrator is. If they're human, they are dealt with by government; if they are supernatural, they're dealt with by the slayers. Except that of course warlocks using magic to end the world would still need to be dealt with by the slayers and demons caught doing petty theft or something probably don't even ping the slayer's radar.
Review By [Lictre] • Date [16 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "part 2" from (Recent Donor)jcon
Review:
What an intriguing way to involve Gibbs in their world. Impressed with how you wrote & staged the confrontation between Gibbs & Xander. Liked how you created your confident Xander, he was all the things Joss crafted for his character. Thankyou for such an interesting story.
Comments from author:
Thank you for such a wonderful review.
Review By [(Recent Donor)jcon] • Date [16 Nov 14] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "part 2" from spk
Review:
Loved this!! :)
Review By [spk] • Date [16 Nov 14] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "part 2" from Studyofchaos
Review:
Excellent story. This is a well written thoughtful work. Thanks.
Review By [Studyofchaos] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from fanreaderonetwo
Review:
Good fic

One thing that bugs me is Gibbs backing down on hearing Xander saying that if the 10 y/o had been "initiated" then he would be killed. I would expect him to react _far_ more strongly.
Similarly, I would more reaction to Xander's crew having _unquestioned_ the judge-jury-executioner authority.

Wondering how often Xander's crew has to have someone's chain yanked _hard_ because they start sniffing around (due to pure curiosity, outrage about vigilantes having such authority, smelling a potential source of wealth or power, etc) and Xander thinks that they are not someone he considers useful, safe or desirable to deal with.

Image of someone (Maggie Walsh comes to mind) who hears about Xander's crew and wants a piece of the secret. Or else its a newsy or blogger type who smells a great story and wants to tell the world about it.
Comments from author:
Thanks!

I think the whole kill-a-10-year-old is so far out of acceptable behavior that it throws Gibbs into assessment mode: something is *really* off about these people and the problem is at a more basic level than just a jurisdiction fight. I mean, how do you even argue not to kill a 10-year-old victim? It's so obviously wrong, that if someone thinks it's a good idea then their logic is not normal-people logic.

And I think Xander does it on purpose: he's agreed to not confront federal agents with proof of the supernatural, but he can still confront them with the fact that he's working with such a different rule book that no one will know what arguments to make.
Review By [fanreaderonetwo] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "part 2" from VillageOrchid
Review:
I like this because Gibbs is getting close to not being good for field work himself. I think he'd rather do Xander's desk work than his agency's desk work, if he isn't ready to retire.
Comments from author:
ooh, that is a very good point
Review By [VillageOrchid] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "part 2" from TaraLi
Review:
Beautiful. Truly beautiful the way you handled that. And of course Xander knew Gibbs was there - and fully expected Gibbs to grab the phone number. The question lies in what next... What does Gibbs do when he knows a team member is hiding something that he expects is that important.
Comments from author:
Thanks! I'm not sure what happens next but currently I'm thinking that Gibbs has enough experience, both in the military and out, with holding a whole lot of secrets that he might decide to just let it lie. For now at least.
Review By [TaraLi] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "part 2" from burmafrdnow
Review:
VERY VERY GOOD.

Though there is no way the government is forcing them to do anything; what happened I bet was an agreement. But you know Buffy would take that agreement and stick it right up the governments rear end if she thought she needed to.
Comments from author:
*grin* Yeah, "forcing" might be putting it a bit strongly. They have an agreement and the benefits to the Scoobies are too useful for them to break the agreement in any obvious fashion. And it's possible, now that I think on it, that the big show in the first chapter about how frustrating Xander finds it was more for the benefit of his government minders than anything. "It's so awful having to obey this all the time. It really is awful. the way I obey it. all the time." *grin*
Review By [burmafrdnow] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "part 2" from eriktheviking
Review:
A great chapter with a very well written intense Tony in conflict as well as Gibbs' overshadowing presence.
Comments from author:
Thanks!
Review By [eriktheviking] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "part 2" from mendal
Review:
What things did Gibbs and team get away with that comes even close to what the Scoobies got away with?



EDIT:Xander:50+ counts of mind-rape (love spell) unknown counts of negligent homicide (summoning sweet) theft of military property (rocket launcher), Buffy:dereliction of duty (let Angelus go after judge killed) unknown counts of negligent homicide (Angelus victims after judge)Willow:unknown counts of mind rape (memory spells) attempted murder of dawn (drain her of all key energy) attempted GENOCIDE.
Comments from author:
Huh? ... nothing? Gibbs and his team nominally follow the law while the Scoobies blatantly break the law and get away with it due to the agreement they have with the government. And Gibbs and team put away criminals who hurt people while the Scoobies put away demons who hurt people and/or try to destroy the world.
Review By [mendal] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "part 2" from Rich
Review:
I like this one; you've done a good job capturing both Gibbs and DiNozzo. Gibbs is a curmudgeon and DiNozzo is a class clown/frat boy, but neither one of them is stupid and you've caught that well.

Nice job.
Comments from author:
Thanks! And yeah, they may occasionally play up the stereotypes that are seen as dumb, but they are anything but.
Review By [Rich] • Date [15 Nov 14] • Rating [8 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from warslick
Review:
This looks like it has the potential to be the beginning of an interesting series. I do hope that you decide to make it into a series as I am not sure I have ever seen a set-up quite like this. It would be interesting to see how Gibbs and crew would find out about what is going on and their reaction to it.

Anyways, I must say that I really did like this story and the Gibbs/Xander conversation
Comments from author:
Thanks for the review! It actually reminded me that I had a whole second bit that was circling in my head and needed to be gotten out. :-D
Review By [warslick] • Date [14 Nov 14] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from gaulty
Review:
Good chapter , byes
Review By [gaulty] • Date [16 Feb 14] • Not Rated
Page: 1 of 3 next end
StoryReviewsStatisticsRelated StoriesTracking