Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from ChloeBlack
This was ..... BRILLIANT. I loveloveloveLOOVED it!!
So much that even though I need to be up early and my bed is covered in piles of laundry, I'm going to completely ignore both of those factors and read everything else you've written in this series!
Review By [ChloeBlack
] • Date [6 Dec 12] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from apollo
Interesting story, and overall a good start to what I'm sure is a fascinating series - I look forward to reading the rest, and may I say that I am *seriously* impressed at how much you have written in such a short time - I mean, over 550,000 words in less than a year... I live in a dorm called Writers House, where NaNoWriMo is fairly religiously observed... and there are a *lot* of people struggling to make 50k in a month, and give up meals and sleep - not to mention all traces of a social life - to do so, yet you are well on the way to maintaining that inhuman pace for a solid, straight year... :O
Anyway, there is one issue that I had reading this story that is kind of problematical... Jack. It seems quite clear from the references each character makes that the Doctor is sometime between The Runaway Bride and Smith & Jones, and Buffy is from s3, sometime between Beauty and the Beasts and Revelations - or late October through late November 1998. The problem appears with Jack. Because this story is taking place without Buffy traveling in time - her trip in the TARDIS under the control of Omega/shadow-Doctor was clearly a spatial hop only - we know that the story is set at the same point in time that Buffy currently is at in her own timeline. The problem appears for the first time in Chapter 10, when you introduce Jack to the mix. Now the Jack of late 1998 still has nearly a decade left to wait before meeting the Doctor again (for the first time since the Parting of the Ways) at the beginning of Utopia (heck, he still has over thirteen months to go before he is given control over Torchwood 3 and longer still before he severs ties with Torchwood 1 in London). This is reinforced by the fact that he does not know what makes him immortal, nor does he know what happened to Rose, both things that the Doctor fills him in on in Utopia. Yet somehow, he describes a Doctor that he has never met as the one he is expecting - the Jack of 1998 has only met the 9th Doctor, and will not meet the Tenth until Utopia - this is confirmed at the beginning of Utopia when the two exchange remarks about "having had work done" and Ten reveals that he regenerated. Furthermore, when Jack and the Doctor meet in the story, he displays only minimal interest in Rose (and gets a less of an explanation for her disappearance than he did in canon) and no interest whatsoever in his immortality, and the causes and cures thereof - which has been his primary overriding motivation for the last century and a half in trying to find the Doctor, and a major reason that he was so desperate to reconnect with the Doctor that he clung to the exterior of the TARDIS as it departed. This seems more than a little out of character for 1998 Jack, and when combined with the knowing-a-Doctor-he-hasn't-yet-met issue, makes it seem, sometimes, (especially when coupled with the way the Doctor treats Jack throughout) like this Jack has come back in time from some point following Last of the Time Lords - but that possibility has its own issues, namely, why then would either Jack or the Doctor feel compelled to discuss Rose, and why doesn't Jack know how he ended up immortal? Not to mention, why would he have come back in the first place? This was really the only major issue I spotted (I don't count here clear typos like where you wrote Tardis with just the T capitalized, or misspelled Wharf, or one or two others - those don't seriously detract from the story, but as this one really disrupts the flow and internal logic of the story and creates a contradiction (or paradox :)), I thought it needed to be pointed out). I do look forward to reading the rest of the series though, despite the fact that it will prolly take me weeks to get through.
Comments from author:
You're right, I don't do Jack justice. I didn't do him justice in this story, and I probably won't do him justice in the other stories. I like Jack, which is why he keeps coming up, but I find him really hard to write.
The only point you made that I can actually account for, on the Jack front, is the physical description. I did think about that. In some of the Dr. Who comics, they mention that Torchwood, in the 20th century, had a physical description of the pinstripe suited Doctor. I assumed that Jack, having worked for Torchwood during that time, would know about this description. He'd know it was the next Doctor that he was looking for, because was around during that first incident with the werewolf, and Jack would probably have been able to guess. Jack's a time traveler - he'd know better than to create a paradox - so I'm assuming he would have looked for that Doctor, not the 9th one.
As for the other points you made, I'm afraid I don't have a good excuse for them, except that it was a pacing issue. "Don't Be" was originally a lot longer, because I *did* go into all the points you discussed. As you say, the first thing Jack would want to talk about would be his immortality, and he'd also want to talk about Rose. The Doctor, having just lost Rose, would not be in the mood to talk about either of those things. This led to a lot of banter, producing very little, which wound up dragging the story down.
So I deleted it.
My only justification for deleting it is that I just thought, if Jack walked into a room and saw the Doctor bleeding to death on the floor, and then discovered that the entire universe was about to end unless they acted fast, I think he'd be less keen to discuss his immortality, and more keen to help the Doctor not die.
But, as you said. It was way underdone. And that is entirely due to pacing, which isn't a very good answer.
Oh, but in regards to typos (sorry about Wharf, I'll fix that in future stories), Tardis is actually spelled that way in the shooting scripts! Just the T capitalized, nothing else! It wasn't until I took a screenwriting class, and discovered that this is entirely due to a convention of script writing (if you put it in caps every time, the props department would murder you) that I started putting it in all caps.
Review By [apollo
] • Date [27 Nov 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from ShyBob
Outstanding blending of BtVS and DH. I enjoyed your twisting of the Buffyverse into a Dr. Who-centric piece, and the effort put into making the Slayer back-story fit both canon.
Review By [ShyBob
] • Date [24 Nov 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from SlowMercury
I enjoyed this very much -- all the timelines crisscrosssing is a very cool effect. Snappy dialogue, interesting (if temporally confusing) plot, and a good set up for the similarities and differences between Buffy and the Doctor. I also particularly liked the final scene with Angel and the Doctor was very nice and dramatic. Good work!
One question, though: in Chapter 19, you mention that Buffy's "I forgive you" meant something different to every person present, and suggested that the readers had enough information to guess what the different meanings were. Buffy's intent was obvious, but I'm curious about what Jack and the Doctor heard. In light of the epilogue, I'd say that the Doctor was hearing forgiveness for whatever argument he had with Elizabeth, but I'm not sure that's what you intended and I've got no ideas at all about Jack.
Comments from author:
Sorry I didn't get back to this comment sooner.
You got right on with the Doctor -- he wanted forgiveness for what happened with Elizabeth.
I had a very good idea for what Jack was thinking, when I wrote the story, but unfortunately, I can't remember anymore. Damn. I guess that means the reader doesn't have enough information, as I sure don't.
I vaguely remember it was something along the lines of Jack thinks the Buffy's forgiving the Doctor for the Time War, but that doesn't make any sense, does it? After all, Jack doesn't know what the Doctor did during the War.
Review By [SlowMercury
] • Date [17 Sep 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from James
Love this story.
About the 66% thing. Satan always puts enough truth in to make us doubt. My thought was that if The Doctor kills off 66% of the population then that is because that choice saves the most lives. Scary, but true, in my book.
Review By [James
] • Date [21 Jun 12] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from MarcusSLazarus
While a part of me is a bit frustrated at the fact that so many people are judging the Doctor as a threat based on what he MIGHT do rather than what he’s done- I get why they want to guarantee access to his knowledge, but if you’re going to judge someone because they might be a threat than the entire human race should commit suicide because we could ALL potentially hurt someone else under the right circumstances-, that issue and his willingness to save vampires aside (He had no problem killing them in ‘State of Decay’ alone), I can’t deny that you definitely have a rather interesting plot here.
The initial introduction was certainly interesting- even if I have SOME doubts about Buffy automatically trying to kill someone whose only ‘crime’ is talking to a vampire; the Doctor never said anything to suggest that he was a threat to humanity and the vampire’s reaction suggested that it was afraid of HIM-, and the Council’s fundamentally biased perspective on his history certainly fit their usual warped view on anything non-human (Even if I think the Scoobies are being a bit quick to ‘jump on the bandwagon’, I can’t exactly say that it’s without reason given that the series only established that ‘demon’ didn’t always mean ‘evil’ after Doyle appeared, with Angel being a unique case), to say nothing of the exceptional idea you had about the origin of the Hellmouth and something else using the Slayers to come through.
Bringing in Omega and the Key to Time was a pleasant change given the typical modern ‘fixation’ on the modern series to the point where events in the classic are all but ignored (I would have liked a reference to the ‘Key 2 Time’ audio trilogy where the Fifth Doctor had to find the Key again, but that’s just me and it’s still possible that this could fit into those events with the Key’s discorporated energy coming together after its destruction in that episode), to say nothing of providing a very interesting idea about the nature of Buffy’s existence with the whole ‘Line-Hopper’ concept (Very nice analogy with the paper and the two drawings, on that topic; very ‘Doctor-ish’).
VERY dark touch with the origin of the Slayer timeline- to say nothing of the scale of the choice that the Doctor had to make-, but at least it gave Buffy a chance to clearly see the Doctor despite the conflicting reports she’d been getting from Jack and Omega (The Watchers’ views don’t count as they admitted that they twisted their records), and I appreciated the fact that you accounted for the ‘anomaly’ of Jack meeting the Doctor now and not remembering it when they met again in ‘Utopia’.
Still a bit confused about what could have happened between Angel and the Doctor in their last meeting to result in this kind of relationship between them- what could Angelus have done that prompted the Eighth Doctor to let them curse him, to say nothing of Angel’s excessively negative view of the Doctor?-, but I nevertheless look forward to learning the answer in the sequel; something this intriguing is DEFINITELY going to be interesting to learn more about...
Comments from author:
First off, thanks for the review! I agree with every single point, pretty much, (I love it when that happens!) except the vampire-staking thing. So I'll start with that.
So. Not staking vampires. I've gotten a lot of schtick for this, but I stand by it whole-heartedly. First off, the Doctor reserves the right to change his mind (State of Decay was the first time he'd encountered a vampire). And the vampire in State of Decay was a full-blooded vampire, not a human hybrid. And he didn't have a cure, yet. Second, in "Vampire Science", the Eighth Doctor does keep trying to give the vampires a chance.
The thing is, actually, the main reason is that every time I thought about making the Doctor kill vampires, it just felt like something he wouldn't do. This is partially because I'm privy to some information that I'm not revealing to you, yet. But it's also because... the Doctor always believes in giving his enemies a chance. Unless they're completely irredeemable, like Daleks and Cybermen. But because the vampires are redeemable (see Joanna Harris in "Vampire Science", or Angel in Buffy), he'd want to redeem them. It just felt like what he would do.
And, yes, there is another reason I'm not telling you about, because I'm writing that story, now.
Okay, anyways. On to your next paragraph! Hm... yeah, you're right. Buffy didn't have a good reason to try to kill him, except for the fact that her Slayer senses told her he was a serious bad guy. He used to sound a lot more evil, and then I changed the dialogue. But, basically, I just really wanted to see Buffy attacking him. And, yes, that is TOTALLY lazy writing. I agree whole heartedly. :-) Oh, I did want to point out that, in Buffy, when bad stuff gets scared, it usually is because there's a bigger bad on the way. But, yeah, basically, it boils down to lazy writing.
Watchers Council just wanted the Doctor's knowledge, and they wanted him to shut up about the origin of the Slayer. They felt guilty about locking him up, though, so they came up with a bunch of other stuff that made no sense. That's my take on it, at any rate. But yeah, you're right. Watchers Council is stuffy and pretentious. Oh, and thanks for the compliment.
Next paragraph! Oh, yeah, the Key to Time! I love the Key to Time. Actually, the only reason I didn't bring up the Key2Time audio trilogy was because I brought it up in Time Walker, and I wanted to stay consistent with that story. If you read that, you'll see Planet Chaos brought up and such. Thanks for the compliment about the Line Hopper thing. :-)
Slayer origins -- I'm glad you liked that. I got mixed reactions to it. I quite liked it, personally. And I think it explains a lot. Oh, and I'm glad you liked the Jack thing. I thought it was a little cheesy, myself, but I'm glad it worked for you. (My inner critic sometimes throws hissy fits about my own work.)
Hehehehe... Angel and the Doctor... there's a lot going on between those two. Trust me, you won't get the full story until "Elizabeth", and that hasn't even been posted, yet. At the moment, I'm on draft 3 of "Elizabeth" (Don't Be had 8 drafts, I believe).
Thanks again! Glad you enjoyed the story! I hope it didn't sound like I was being all snobby in this review -- I agreed with you most of the time!
Review By [MarcusSLazarus
] • Date [4 Mar 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from EmberQuill
I loved this story. I've read a couple of Doctor Who crossovers, but yours is by far one of the best. Buffy's thought process is very realistic and in-character. At this point in canon (I'm assuming it's happening during season 3 but before the Cruciamentum, due to Faith's presence and the state of the Watcher's Council), Buffy was at a bit of a crossroads. She was learning to accept her destiny, but still had a few doubts. And instead of having Buffy immediately disregard everything the Doctor said, or having her immediately believe him and forsake her destiny as the Slayer, you took the middle route and had her slowly begin to question what she thought was true. Few writers can accomplish that kind of slow build-up.
I have mixed feelings about the epilogue, however. Partly because of Angel's continuing distrust of the Doctor (he always gets a bad rap for having disaster and death follow him, even when it's almost always the other way around). Partly because it was so open-ended, although that's no big deal since there's a sequel. I'm really curious about what happened in 2003 in the other timeline that caused Elizabeth to never want to see him again. I'm also wondering what will happen now that Buffy is questioning everything she was taught as the Slayer. I suppose I'd better read on!
Review By [EmberQuill
] • Date [11 Feb 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Fourteen (Paradigm Shift)" from wswords
If this is a terrible story I would like to see what you think is good, because this story is awesome.
Review By [wswords
] • Date [31 Jan 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Four" from Alkeni
Vampires = evil.
On the issue of vampires, the Doctor is flat out wrong. He's amazingly arrogant. Its easy to see why there are people so willing to hate him in "Good Man Goes to War"
Review By [Alkeni
] • Date [30 Jan 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Two" from Alkeni
The Doctor is being his usual incredibly naive.
Vampires = evil. They are mass-murdering creatures that can't be redeemed. They're Daleks, essentially, and the Doctor is always wrong to try and redeem them too.
I like this so far.
Review By [Alkeni
] • Date [30 Jan 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from EHyde
Love this story! I think you did a great job joining the two worlds together in a way that makes sense. It's also awesome that you used more of Doctor Who than just the new series--so many people seem to focus only on 2005-onwards.
Review By [EHyde
] • Date [29 Jan 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from draconis
Excellent Buffy/DrWho xover.
Some of the best and consistent DrWho verse techno-garble I've read.
Was puzzled by apparent absence of all people in Council building after they escaped the cell. Felt like a considerable gap left there in the story.
Wish some of the chapters could have been expanded a bit longer to extend the reading enjoyment.
Review By [draconis
] • Date [22 Jan 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from GothTroubleMaker
Review By [GothTroubleMaker
] • Date [22 Jan 12] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from SilverMidnight
I loved the story, it was really well done and I can't wait for the sequel!
Review By [SilverMidnight
] • Date [19 Jan 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter Twenty Eight: Epilogue" from MountainKing
Trying to review the story as a whole is a little difficult, and I've been trying to since you first posted the epilogue. I always try to give balanced and fair reviews and sometimes it feels like I'm sticking a knife in. Finding flaws that aren't really there, but here we go.
There is something about this story that feels both rushed and unfinished. Either there is a lot of set up for a sequel or you've left a lot of unanswered questions on purpose. What exactly was the extent of Buffy and the Doctor's relationship, where did the Shadowmen get a Time Lord child, how does Angel know the Doctor, what other things has the Doctor been involved in and what sort of impact has meeting the rogue Time Lord had on this instance of Buffy? More is needed. Either Buffy reflecting on what has happened or Willow and Xander's outside impressions on how she's changed.
A whole new story, set two or three months later, might help solve some of these issues.
Next comes something that is a personal issue, so feel free to ignore it. The Doctor having a personal relationship with a human is just wrong. This is one of the reasons I hated Rose by the end and found Martha such an annoyance. Put simply Humans are like keeping half trained Apes as pets to Time Lords and that's being generous. We are so far down on the evolutionary scale that we have more in common with plankton! Now the Doctor, due to his compassion and morals, accepts humanity for what it is and enjoys travelling with one or two people. Their fresh outlook and courage making them friends and good companions. Writing the Doctor in any sort of relationship, other than friend or elderly relative, cheapens him. It might be argued that it makes him more relatable and more human, but that's the problem. He's not, there should always be the sense that what you are dealing with is very much a God. The Oncoming Storm, a Lord of Time. Not some love sick school boy yearning for some pretty girl. That, or vice versa a girl falling for the Doctor, just adds a whole factor that doesn't work.
Another point in the mis characterisation of the Doctor is the will not kill idea. Right at the start you have the Doctor trying to reason with a Vampire, the Ancient Enemy. To him this is like trying to reason with a Dalek, worse still his argument is; 'Hey maybe you don't bite people anymore, mmkay?' While he despises killing, like most Time Lords who not only see the act as barbaric but see it as grand interference on the web of time as it should play out, he is more than willing to resort to it. If there is no other option. There is a reason his name often comes with a list of the dead. Before today he's used cyanide gas, spike traps, temporal snares, explosions and in the Great Vampires case a steal shaft to the heart. Heck when he first encountered Omega he detonated a Black Hole with a matter/antimatter explosion. The centre of which was Omega.
Finally vamp-be-gone ? The Doctor has a cure to Vampirism lying around in the TARDIS? First of all this is a cheap way to resolve a plot twist, my jaw literally dropped when reading it. Just as cheap, but more in keeping should have been Omega, horrified at the Doctor's imminent un-death took Buffy back in time in the TARDIS and saved the Doctor. Creating a paradox that both sealed "Toby" in the black hole and killed Omega, freeing him from his torture. Vamp-be-gone was a deux ex Machina that was both unnecessary and killed a great portion of the drama you had going.
Which is a shame, as this is a very good story. Buffy questioning her destiny like his is something very few writers have ever had the guts to try. Another change from the norm is a lot of writers, myself included, put Buffy in one of two roles; the hero that gets it right or the smug pain in the arse that needs to be taken down a couple of pegs. Here you have the right mix of both, far more in character with the Buffy we all know. She's sure, confidant and capable of making mistakes while at the same time quietly uncomfortable. If only more writers could pull this off. Xander and Willow, while cameoing here, are the perfect foils for her to bounce off from. Showing both sides of her personality.
I also like how you've got the Watchers Council, people meddling with forces beyond their control. Using what little knowledge they had dangerously, with it all about to explode in their collective faces. Faith's hit first, don't bother with questions later, attitude that got her in to so much trouble originally is used to great effect.
So a good story, despite it's flaws. I do look forward to reading more from you
AKA Mountain King
Comments from author:
I think that's fair. I disagree on the Doctor falling in love, because I think it just makes things more interesting. But overall, it's a fair critique. It's not the best thing I've ever written. The vamp-away was probably a bit deus ex machina. But I figured because I mentioned it earlier, I might as well use it again.
Vamp-Away is not mine, by the way. It was taken from a Doctor Who book about vampires, Vampire Science.
The only thing is, about the vampire killing -- I originally had a whole thing in here about where the Doctor explains that vampires are not Daleks, but I cut it out because it was seriously boring. In Vampire Science, the Doctor honestly feels he doesn't want to kill vampires, even though they act despicably and evilly and everyone around the Doctor keeps telling him that he's crazy. He still doesn't want to kill them. He does have a loophole in this logic (which I will use later), but in general, he seems very against. And I think that's right. I feel like, if there is any way for a vampire to get better (and Buffy has shown us that this is unlikely but possible) that the Doctor should want to give them a chance.
I was going to write a sequel short story that did exactly what you were talking about -- a digestive, reflective story on how Buffy's changed. Thing is, it was boring, so I scrapped it. I'm afraid that when I do post the next installment of this series, you are going to hate me. I apologize ahead of time.
There is, of course, the possibility of writing extra short stories, later on, that cover this ground. I remain optimistic that I can -- maybe -- write a short story that will be not-boring that will discuss these issues. But I don't have anything written right now.
Thanks for the review! Hope to hear more from you in the future!
Review By [MountainKing
] • Date [18 Jan 12] • Not Rated