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Review of chapter "Chapter One" from Difdi
Review:
Bullets don't work on vampires? Neither do stakes and I can prove it!

Make a stake out of brass, lead or copper. Hone it to a nice, needle-like point. Give it a nice polish so it's all shiny and pretty. Now stick that bad boy into the heart of a vampire. Hmm, no dust. Try again a time or two. Still not dust. It has now been empirically proven that stakes have no effect whatsoever on vampires, therefore slayers should not carry them on patrol.

Yeah, right. That's the "logic" the Council has always applied to the use of guns by slayers. A gun that is designed to kill humans through blood loss, firing bullets designed to make nice, neat holes for the blood the drain out of doesn't do terribly much to a creature that can survive and fight battles without a single drop of blood in its body. Or a creature that doesn't have blood at all. Or one with rock for skin. Not that swords, axes or stakes work terribly well against that last one either, mind you.

But if modern weapons were useless against demons, the Judge would have shrugged off that AT-4 then burned Buffy down where she stood. Mayor Wilkins would have laughed at how those explosives tickled then went on to eat the entire town, Scooby Gang and all.

Then there's the fact that odds are, the last time the Watcher's Council, reactionary traditionalists that they were, tested guns on vampires they probably used a front-loading matchlock model, loaded with spherical bullets. Vampires are said to be four times faster than a human. Arrows move at 300-400 feet per second and humans can dodge those if they see them coming. A black powder musket's muzzle velocity is less than 1,000 feet per second and most were around 700-800. Vampires could easily dodge those if only twice as fast as a human...and they're four times faster. With modern firearms on the other hand, a slow bullet is still going in excess of 1,200 feet per second and fast ones can exceed 3,000. Vampires aren't fast enough to dodge a bullet doing 2,000 feet per second.

I read about a test the Catholic church once conducted to determine if firearms were evil or not. They had two guns made by a master gunsmith. One was just a standard smooth bore matchlock musket. The other was covered in precious gems and metals, engraved with scripture, and blessed by a Bishop. The standard model used normal black gun powder. The holy variant used specially made powder, made with blessed water and milled under the watchful eyes of priests. The standard model fired a cast lead ball. The holy variant used a specially made solid-silver ball with a crucifix attached to one side. Then they brought in a trained soldier to fire the standard model, while an ordained priest (who had never fired a gun before) fired the holy musket.

The soldier put his bullet squarely in the inner ring of the target. The priest's bullet not only completely missed the target, but was never found after the test. From this, the Catholic church was able to definitively prove that firearms were tools of Satan, and banned their use by good, god-fearing men. Anyone with even the most limited and flawed knowledge of target shooting or ballistics can see why the test didn't work. I can totally see the Council arranging a similar test to see if guns were useful against demons and vampires sometime in the 1500s, then never revisiting the topic again.
Comments from author:
Yes, you can prove almost anything, if you set up the test properly.

And everyone who says bullets are useless against vampires and demons has their head so far up their ass that it's popped out in the right place again. ;-(
Review By [Difdi] • Date [17 Dec 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from cabale
Review:
Woah! Big entrance ! Many many flaw in the new council!
Comments from author:
*Everyone* associated with the Council is flawed. Xander included.
Review By [cabale] • Date [17 Dec 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from eriktheviking
Review:
A well written set of emotional body blows to Xander.
Comments from author:
Well, you have yet to see what's coming up in his future. ;-(
Review By [eriktheviking] • Date [17 Dec 12] • Rating [8 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from lordamnesia
Review:
Very nice! Can't wait to see where you have Xander end up!
Comments from author:
Well, to see where he'll be several years from this point in time, you can read my story 'Not All Snakes Speak Parseltongue.' It's on this site.
Review By [lordamnesia] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from Elleria
Review:
Looking forward to the next bit. Pretty good so far.
Comments from author:
Thanks. The next chapter is partially written. I just have to find the time to finish it.
Review By [Elleria] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Rating [10 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from Raider
Review:
well now, this is an interesting start..
Comments from author:
Thanks. Things will get even more 'interesting' shortly. ;-)
Review By [Raider] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from MagnusXXN
Review:
It does seem like this is the general outlook on things. Which is just so very wrong. I agree, point out Xander's fault for hours. Hes never said he didn't have any. But honestly, Angel and/or Spike getting rewarded....for leading everyone to their deaths?

Its about as bad as the fact that Spike was awarded the title of Champion for standing there and burning up in Sunnydale. The guy stood there. The necklace did all the work, and he was more then half suicidal at the time. How was any part of that difficult for him?

Dawn, Fred, Gunn, not to mention all the SIT who died up till the last battle of Sunnydale saved the day. Risked there lives, even lost there lives and no one called them heroes or champions.

Xander, Wesley, Doyle, they saved lives and in some cases even the world, two of whom died doing so, but no one ever calls them Champions or heroes.

It really does seem like you have to have a superpower for your victories and losses to even matter on the grandscale.

And much like 'the lie', that some people made such a big deal about but was only brought up once on the show and by Buffy to less as she marched off to kill Anya, why was Angel and Xander's parts ever made clear on the CPR? Angel was sitting on his ass, reading a book waiting to hear news of Buffy's death before Xander threatend him at Stake point to help him save her.

Even in the comics, Willows off someone alone saving magic, Buffy/Spike are being all lovely dovey, Angel and Faith are 'fighting for redemption', and while Xander and Dawn are retired. There seperated. Lets me clear, there not friends anymore. And how could they be?

All the slayers are girls again, while Buffy's super slayer, but the girls are still fighting and dieing to fight the good fight. All the while Faith's defending Angel, who killed Giles, and alot of slayers and it was never answered in a way that explained why hes not dust.

Willows off alone doing whatever. I'm not sure.

Buffy and Spike seem to be the two main characters of the comics now. With robots and space aliens. All the while I think Dawns still 17 but is Buffy there for her? Nope.

Its just one aggrivating mess and no one calls anyone on anything anymore.


): )
Comments from author:
I haven't paid any attention to the comics since I realized Joss was still selling the same shit that he had been shoveling the last couple years of the series.

And *everyone* is going to facing some serious questions about how they fucked up, before this story is over.
Review By [MagnusXXN] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from Ghostrider
Review:
Re: the reviewer Mendal: Angle and co are right, virtually all hand held guns are pretty much useless against vamps and demons so why is Xander pushing for them?

I'm sorry but you are very much wrong. May I ask what your firearms qualifications are? I'm asking, not because I'm pedantic, but to get an idea of how much knowledge you actually have about firearms and ammunition?

Here's the thing. If you use a 9mm or lower caliber gun, with classic lead rounds, you're not going to do much against a vamp. Even if you're using a higher caliber, like .40S&W or .45ACP, it's not going to do much. However, those rounds have been superseded for years with bullets that 'flower' open on impact, like the Winchester Hydra-Shok. Unlike the bullets you see on the 'Law & Order'/NCIS/CSI shows, these bullets don't 'contract' or 'warp', they 'bloom, like a flower opening its petals. Put your hands together, palms flat against each other, fingers together, then, holding your wrists together, move your palms backwards while spreading your fingers as wide as possible and you have an idea of what the bullet looks like when it hits the body. Hydra-Shok and comparable bullets are specifically designed to deliver massive shock trauma to a body, instead of just a small hole. Big holes, ripped apart intestines, broken bones and such are their main points. A body hit with a couple of these is going down. A vampire, being hit with a couple of these center mass, is going to feel them much more then the normal bullets. It will take longer for them to shake it off and all you need is seconds. A very good shot, someone who is not rattled under combat conditions, can put a few rounds in knees and shoulders or even the head to take a vamp down for a quick staking by a partner. If we go up the register, to say, the .45ACP and higher calibers (.454 Casull, .44 Magnum etc.) these rounds will do even more damage, on the scale of being able to totally destroy bone. A knee or elbow will be totally pulverized, the extremity only held together with whatever pieces of skin/flesh are still intact.

The above are handgun rounds only. I suggest you do an image search on Google for Hydra-Shok ammo to actually see what the bullet looks like after it has hit a target. I'm sure you'll be quite surprised to see what it looks like and see what it does to pig's meat in test shoots.

If we go up in the armament, like the shotguns mentioned in this story, it gets even more interesting. Dragon's breath rounds are mentioned and while they are very capable, I don't want to rely on them. The reason is that after one or two shots, your weapon will be too hot. The Dragon's Breath basically turns a shotgun into a flamethrower. Not something you want in a protracted fight. At the very least, I'd go with the larger caliber of Buckshot. Personally, however, I'd go with at least flechette rounds, basically, a shell filled with about 20 small darts, like miniature arrows. First used in Vietnam, in everything from shotgun to artillery shells for anti-personell work. In the case of vampires, I'd use hard wood instead of steel. Hitting a vamp center mass (ie. to the chest) will pulp its heart with several wooden flechettes meaning dust). The best round to use, however, would be the Frag-12 series. Basically, these are shotgun-fired grenades (High Explosive Blast, Fragmentation and HEAP (High Explosive, Armor Piercing). If you've seen the movie The Expendables, you will have seen them in action, being used by Terry Crews in his AA-12 Auto Shotgun.

If vampires existed, modern weapons would have no problem in dealing with them. A combination of the right firearm and ammunition would be able to deal with them. A handgun, loaded with silver bullets can deal with a werewolf. Granted, not as well as a rifle loaded with same but a handgun hunter could take one down up close. And a werewolf is a lot more dangerous than a vampire. All it takes is the right gun, the right ammo and extensive training to be able to put the rounds in the right place. Shows like BTVS never did show the proper way of weapons handling or training. This isn't the 17th century, when all we had was a single shot saddle gun and musket, with a small lead ball as a bullet. While advanced for their time, they were nowhere near as lethal as made out to be. Personally, I'm tired of people who know nothing about firearms making blanket statements about them, as if they know everything there is to know about them. Handguns (revolvers, semi-automatics), rifles (hunting/semi-automatic) and shotguns are all handheld weapons, Mendal and with the right ammo, you can take down anything. I'd love to see a vampire getting hit in the head with a Smith & Wesson .500 Magnum Hydra-Shok (or similar) ammo. If the head doesn't explode, at the very least, there will be a very large hole, several inches across where its face used to be. How long would it take to heal from that, hmm?

You also mentioned something about rounds that missed? That is why there is supposed to be extensive training. Unlike gangbangers/OGs (original gangsta's) and the like we get shown on TV and in movies, who only know how to 'Pray & Spray', properly trained people will only fire on target instead of holding the trigger down. Furthermore, as I read it in this story, only one or two persons would be carrying a shotgun/handgun, so they wouldn't be turning it into the 'The Gunfight at the O.K. Corral'. Thirdly, none of these events in story, took place in areas with a lot of people, otherwise, there would have been mentions of the police getting involved. Thus, this means these events took place in either warehouse districts or the 'bad' parts of town. Not typically places where a lot of people are around to get caught in the crossfire. Also, keep in mind, the vamps who used guns, were the ones endangering innocent bystanders as it seems pretty clear they had no proper fire discipline and used the 'Pray & Spray' method, something a trained person would not do. Lastly, it's highly doubtful there would be any 'life' person within the vampires' living area, unless they were there, kept for some 'fun'.

**edit**

One last thing about stray rounds, the rounds I mentioned? They are also designed so as not to over-penetrate once hitting a target. All their energy is expended inside the body, hence the massive shock trauma in relation to the size of the bullet.
Comments from author:
Thank you for a very extensive explanation for why modern ammunition *would* be effective against demons and vampires, man.

The way Joss and Marti made supposedly trained military personnel act like sock puppets, in order to make their favorites look good, instead of like the dorks they were actually acting like, always made me want to scream at the TV and throw things. ;-0
Review By [Ghostrider] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from Oxnate
Review:
I agree with much of what Ghostrider said. Except for what he said about shotguns.

Dragonsbreath are pyrotechnic rounds that LOOK like they're shooting flames but actually shoot sparks. Here's a video of DB rounds being fired in the woods, in the fall, with dry leaves all around. Note that nothing catches on fire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwhCygmhbCg

Also, wooden flechette rounds are a bad idea. They won't penetrate to a vampire's heart except at point-blank range. The reason is mass. Wooden ammo doesn't have the same density, mass, or therefore penetrating power that even steel has. http://www.apsimplepsaltery.com/material_densities.htm

-Oxnate
Comments from author:
Well, depending upon what sort of mixed load you used, flechettes coudl be useful. They might not kill the vamps or demons they hit, but they would definitely show them down, if you take out their legs, which would allow others to finish up the job the first team started.
Review By [Oxnate] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from BillieBog
Review:
Based on how they often treated Xander, I can see this scenario clearly, which makes it really yucky to read. I love the "everyone finally gets how important Xander is" stories the best, but you have fascinated me with this take. Can't wait for the next chapter.
Comments from author:
It's substantially the same way Buffy and Willow treated him from season three onwards, and we all saw how intelligent that idea was. ;-(
Review By [BillieBog] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Rating [9 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from djhardim
Review:
I have a feeling that Xander's position in the organization will be further eroded when he gets back. Don't forget that Spike was a master manipulator.

Link to previous story - "Not All Snakes Speak Parseltongue".

http://www.tthfanfic.org/Story-13832/Greywizard+Not+All+Snakes+Speak+Parseltongue.htm
Comments from author:
I'm trying not to forget anythign like that. ;-)
Review By [djhardim] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from iamjmph
Review:
great chapter and so sadly true... and no one even seemed to catch on that angel was hiding something, which i would expect from all of them but spike... and maybe dawn... Maybe you should have Xander ask why they are still using their demons names even if they are human now?(Angel's birth name was NOT Angel, he was named Angelus by Darla cause he had "an Angel's face" and just dropped the "us" when the soul thing happened, and really spike "im human but keep calling me the name the vampire gained by torturing people with railroad spikes...) anyways, its great, thanks for writing cant wait for more of your work

and the hand guns used by darla put angel on the ground for at least a few minutes, and if one member of a team was taking shots at the vamps, others would be able to get better positioned. And yes there is the whole tracer/incendiary round aspect... a strong enough tracer could temporarily blind the vamps too, if they have superior vision....
Comments from author:
All good points which might be addressed in an upcoming chapter. ;-)
Review By [iamjmph] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from mendal
Review:
While I'll agree that incendiary rounds of some would probably work the big problem I can see with them is what about the rounds that miss? Of course the real problem is that the watchers had decades to experiment and did nothing.
Comments from author:
Dragon's Breath rounds are not actually incendiary rounds, as they're manufactured in entirely different manners.

And the Watchers thought that they didn't have to provide any sort of support for a single girl fighting demons, so their thought processes were already fucked up. They all deserved to be exterminated.
Review By [mendal] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Not Rated
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from Tjack
Review:
When the man's right, he's right.
Comments from author:
Yep, you're right about that.
Review By [Tjack] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Rating [7 out of 10]
Review of chapter "Chapter One" from AnnaDruvez
Review:
I'm definitely liking the setup so far. I can't wait to see when heads (literally or figuratively) start to roll!
Comments from author:
Thanks. Glad you're enjoying the story. ;-)
Review By [AnnaDruvez] • Date [16 Dec 12] • Rating [10 out of 10]
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